Track Day Insurance/Cover

[GB]

Sean you are caught up in youthful exuberance but don't let it bite your arse. I admire your confidence and enthusiasm but don't be fooled into believing your own hype and thinking you're invincible - you are a great driver but not invincible. Take the advice being offered by your friends / future potential clients here and get it sorted sooner rather than later.

I for one would hate to see an enthusiastic talent like yours go to waste........

 

[Sean Edwards]

To be honest Sean, there is no real need for you to be in the driving seat, and even if you where, there is also no reason at all to drive the car 75% never mind 95%. I doubt any good instructor could drive a car at 85% and still talk sense to the pupil........

A

I disagree here, I think 3 slow demo laps of speaking your way and explaining your self and what they should be doing is very useful, then a couple of faster laps to show the cars potential!

Out of interest, do you have PLC for when you instruct and if so, who do you use mate? Thanks.

Does Bennet have insurance and if so who does he use? I know nearly all private instructors around do not have any type of insurance, even people like Mike Wilds, who has been around for donky's years. Not good if your not on a ATDO day.

Thanks for the answer....and i guessed it would be so, just wanted to hear from the horses mouth...

I am quite surprised that you are not covered to drive our cars, as i thought i read that you said that you were 'fully insured' ....obviously cover for different things....

I would certainly expect a good tutor to show me the capabilities of my own car, but certainly won't allow that unless i know they are fully insured, as said, accidents do happen, even if they are not by your own doing......

Please keep us posted

G.

No probs.

Well, on ATDO days like Gold Track, ARDS instructors licence covers you as a track official, so PLC is included already. But I need cover for all days and to drive all the cars as well.

Yep, will do

To be honest, there is next to nothing to be gained from giving someone pax laps in there own car other than the thrill they may get from it... The tuition should take place from the passenger seat....I just don't see any benefit from it, especially considering the risk factor should anything go wrong...

All this 85 - 95% stuff is rubbish IMO.. 95% is all well and good til a hub nut fails at 100mph+ or someone tags your rear quarter panel on the entry to bridge corner..

I've been lucky enough to been offered drives in plenty of nice cars at track days but I'm always of the opinion that if I bend it I mend it.... Surely this adage applies more so when someone is doing it in a professional capacity...

Go get the insurance Sean, in my opinion its more of a necessity than your race experience!

I think 90% of people do gain from it and that's from expierance of how there driving changes after those laps!

I will do for sure, much better safe then sorry.

I have been fortunate to have had instruction from 2 well known international racing drivers, both very different in styles one being just awesome in a 911 but really could only show me what to do rather than verbally teach it, in the end he just told me he couldnt teach me anything & I should go racing. The other a Le Mans & multi touring car champion was an excellent teacher he really showed me the technical side of driving and how less was more, all within a couple of laps watching him drive Donny with one hand on the steering wheel slightly drifting through the corners using just 3rd & 4th it was ultimate car control and it felt so smooth, he said I was OK but had a lot to learn. Just like Football its all about opinions,,,

Sean once you have the insurance sorted let us know I would like to book some time with you on a Paddock Day.

Russell

Interesting stuff.

I will let you everyone know Russell, should be soon enough.

Yeah get it sorted Sean or get out of the game.

As for passenger laps, I have found them very helpful in the past.

If you said that to everyone, there would be no instructors around

Sean you are caught up in youthful exuberance but don't let it bite your arse. I admire your confidence and enthusiasm but don't be fooled into believing your own hype and thinking you're invincible - you are a great driver but not invincible. Take the advice being offered by your friends / future potential clients here and get it sorted sooner rather than later.

I for one would hate to see an enthusiastic talent like yours go to waste........

Not at all, I agree with everything and will be getting insurance, end of story!

 

[eoin]

To be honest, there is next to nothing to be gained from giving someone pax laps in there own car other than the thrill they may get from it... The tuition should take place from the passenger seat....I just don't see any benefit from it, especially considering the risk factor should anything go wrong...

All this 85 - 95% stuff is rubbish IMO.. 95% is all well and good til a hub nut fails at 100mph+ or someone tags your rear quarter panel on the entry to bridge corner..

I've been lucky enough to been offered drives in plenty of nice cars at track days but I'm always of the opinion that if I bend it I mend it.... Surely this adage applies more so when someone is doing it in a professional capacity...

Go get the insurance Sean, in my opinion its more of a necessity than your race experience!

i always found it easier to fall asleep while a race driver drove my car, so handy that they only wake you for fuel money........ thanks barry such a mate.......

 

[Damon]

And when you do have insurances, those that can be obtained, because I do believe it will be difficult, you will be the only one who is and you should market that.

As you've pointed out, none of the other instructors do.

 

[Sean Edwards]

i always found it easier to fall asleep while a race driver drove my car, so handy that they only wake you for fuel money........ thanks barry such a mate.......

And when you do have insurances, those that can be obtained, because I do believe it will be difficult, you will be the only one who is and you should market that.

As you've pointed out, none of the other instructors do.

Good point.

PLI is not a problem, at £4k. But I only hope that the cost is not too much to drive clients cars, 21, driving expensive cars round at hight speed, can see the insurance having a field day! Might have to just not drive if it's to much ££.

Have e-mailed the reccomended companies above, will see what prices they come up with. Am also getting the PA to talk to our insurance broker about it all tommorow.

 

[GB]

As Damon has pointed out, your business can grow even stronger with a key marketing differential like that. The costs of your insurance can always be incorporated into your tuition costs. The client is actually more likely to feel they are getting value for money if you've taken the effort to look after their interests responsibly. Being reckless with other people's money and wellbeing is rarely seen as a positive trait.

 

[brady]

As Damon has pointed out, your business can grow even stronger with a key marketing differential like that. The costs of your insurance can always be incorporated into your tuition costs. The client is actually more likely to feel they are getting value for money if you've taken the effort to look after their interests responsibly. Being reckless with other people's money and wellbeing is rarely seen as a positive trait.

Most definitely. For a service where there is little to differentiate between competitors, a tangible cue such as insurance to differentiate will initially destroy everyone else!

 

[InsBro]

PLI is not a problem, at £4k. .

You need to check the standard exclusions as anything to do with a motor vehicle will be excluded.
Its not strictly PLI you need either its TPL with cover for TPBI

Jez

 

[Barry]

i always found it easier to fall asleep while a race driver drove my car, so handy that they only wake you for fuel money........ thanks barry such a mate.......

LMAO.... That was a great trip...You managed to stay awake when I was playing with the hot chick in the Corsa in North Wales though

 

[Sean Edwards]

Update on this.

The PA has sorted out PLI for track days.

Its seeming at no insurance companies will touch me for driving clients cars on track, which has no surprised me at all. My PA even went to Silverstone and Brands Hatch, talked to their insurers and still nothing. She has gone to a few others, who have asked for details, so they might come back with a quote!

But, it looks like the client will have to put me on his own insurance for the day, if they want it covered and speaking to a lawyer, he said I need an indemnity made, for them to sign before I drive the car.

A few of my clients have put me on their insurance for upcoming days and have said that their insurer has charged no extra costs anyway.

Any more suggestions?

 

[GB]

Glad to see you are looking into this more Sean - it's got you thinking with a business head. It will be worthwhile, if only to know exactly where you stand on the insurance front.

Good luck.

 

[Sean Edwards]

Sean try Jez at Pace Ward www.pw-f.co.uk

He does all my commercial insurances

+1 for Jez he is at the forefront of providing cover for unusual risks etc


Allan

I sent him a long request form, explaining everything and he never even had the decency to get back to me

 

[Sean Edwards]

Glad to see you are looking into this more Sean - it's got you thinking with a business head. It will be worthwhile, if only to know exactly where you stand on the insurance front.

Good luck.

Agreed. Thanks.

 

[InsBro]

I sent him a long request form, explaining everything and he never even had the decency to get back to me

Well don’t you think there may be a chance I haven’t received it?

I do this cover for other instructors!

Its normal business practice in my opinion to start a dialogue by phone for something this unusual?

Why did you think I added some (IMO) valid input to this thread.

Jez

 

[InsBro]

Just trebble checked - I also get the info@ email's

 

[Sean Edwards]

Well don’t you think there may be a chance I haven’t received it?

I do this cover for other instructors!

Its normal business practice in my opinion to start a dialogue by phone for something this unusual?

Why did you think I added some (IMO) valid input to this thread.

Jez

Ah, you’re the man! I didn't know you were on this forum Do you have a number I could contact you on please, to discuss?

Sorry about the above, didn't mean any offence, but I did fill out your form on your website, which I presumed should get through to someone (http://www.pw-f.co.uk/component/option,com_contact/Itemid,3/). I just guessed that you were not interested at all.

 

[DanH]

I'm rather surprised by the content of this thread as I had always assumed people realised that if you let someone drive your car on a racetrack, it is at your own risk, or your insurers if they have extended cover (which is certainly possible as I used to get instructors added onto my trackday cover).

Whilst it would be great if Sean could be covered to do a couple of laps in a clients car, would you be willing to hire him if his cost went up to 1k a day to cover this?

The PLI cover is a good idea though Sean, you need to cover yourself. Covering a clients car is another matter imho.

As to how valuable it is to be taken out by a more competent driver, I find it really useful. Does wonders for my time on a given circuit to watch someone elses entry speeds, turn in points etc.

How about this one for us clients? What happens if we toss Sean the keys, and he has a horrible accident because the car has been badly maintained - perhaps you forgot to tighten the wheelbolts up... Who's getting sued now?

The one I find personally troubling is taking someone out for a pax ride. If you somehow kill that passenger you could be in a world of trouble. Look what happened to the guy who crashed his CGT in the states killing himself + a passenger. His estate has been sued successfully for millions. The circuit & Porsche had to contribute too. None of his case was helped by the fact he'd put a thread up about handling issues with the car on the internet before the accident. Anything up here could potentially end up in court used against you, even things like suggesting you like a dice on the public road could end up very damaging in the hands of the police if you have an accident where it might be considered relevant.

Anyway, I think people are being a little hard on Sean. He is in the same position as just about every other instructor.

 

[InsBro]

Dan - US law is totally different especially in those and these circumstances (thankfully)

Sean - yeah no probs its 01782 286311

Jez

 

[Clive]

Dan - your right about lack of damage cover Sean is not the only instructor taking that risk without cover but I don't know anyone who operates any business without PLI cover - in fact isn't it illegal to do so ??

 

[DanH]

Dan - US law is totally different especially in those and these circumstances (thankfully)

Sean - yeah no probs its 01782 286311

Jez

Jez - the law isn't that different. No punitive damages, but if it could be shown the accident was down to negligence then you have a problem. No amount of disclaimers (and do any of us make pax sign them?) cover you from death or injury through negligence. Also the disclaimers that organisers get us to sign don't protect us if we give rides (they are worried enough about their own position).