Track Day Insurance/Cover

[Sean Edwards]

Thanks guys.

As far as I can see, there are two insurance's that I need.

Public Liability insurance and Cover for when I am driving the car. Have I missed anything else out? I will consult with my lawyer tomorrow as well.

Do the above mentioned companies supply both, or would I have to buy them separate?

 

[Damon]

Pace Ward supply Public Liability, Product Liability, Employers Liability, Professional Indemnity, Trade Vehicle and more so I think they will have your needs covered

 

[Sean Edwards]

if you have no insurance your at nothing, and saying 85% is bullsh#tyour out in a car and some1 comes out and you decide its dice time your going to show off it's just what any male will do, i make sausages and i'm insured up to the eye's, and you realy don't know how your insured till you have to claim. and claiming that you can pay for 100k cars thats great, what about the follow on of hospital bill's, physio, out of work, so on so on..... most of the guy's you teach will be in very good job's r have a good comfortable lifestyles, god forbid you kill some1 and you have to cover lost earning to their families thats when it gets a bit more than 100k for a bit of metal, millions of £ could be the out come. i don't wish for this to happen to anybody but you never know, any chances i would have had of using you are gone out the window or using anybody else unless i was 100% happy that i and the passenger was fully insured.

Racing is my profession and when I drive someone else's car on a track day, I am not there to race or show off, as I don't need to. The only purpose of me driving is to show the lines and techniques that I am teaching to the client. I very rarely push their car any where near the true limit, as the faster I go, the less they actually take in about what I am trying to show.

Like I said above, it is all being sorted out for next year, why are we going round in circles? I have been looking into all this insurance stuff for the past 3 months; it’s not as simple as it first looks, but like I said, it will all be sorted out for 2008.

Pace Ward supply Public Liability, Product Liability, Employers Liability, Professional Indemnity, Trade Vehicle and more so I think they will have your needs covered

Great, I will speak to them, thanks!

 

[Glenn Mc]

Sean,


In your opinion, how beneficial is it for your 'pupil' for want of another word, to have a pas lap with you driving their car ?


G.

 

[Sean Edwards]

Sean,


In your opinion, how beneficial is it for your 'pupil' for want of another word, to have a pas lap with you driving their car ?


G.

In most cases, it’s very beneficial. 90% of people need the visual aspect of someone showing them what needs to be done and what the car could actually do, which gives them more confidence in the car capabilities.

Normally I would do 2-3 slow ish laps and 1-2 faster laps, as most people will not take as much information in at speed, as it becomes like a rollercoaster, especially from the passenger seat.

 

[Dave]

Sean, do you mind me asking?
You quote ur tuition to benefit drivers by showing them how to handle their cars on the limit..., how do you achieve this by driving at 85%?????

 

[Sean Edwards]

Sean, do you mind me asking?
You quote ur tuition to benefit drivers by showing them how to handle their cars on the limit..., how do you achieve this by driving at 85%?????

You can ask anything you wish and it's a very good question.

I am not there to rag someone's road car to 100% of its ability. On the limit anything can happen and I am not going to take any risks when I have a passenger on board, with or without insurance, it's just not my style.

When we get to race cars, it's slightly different. As with most track day drivers, many rarely get within 70% of the cars actual capability, as they them selves don't have the experience or ability to go beyond that straight away. With race driver tuition in race cars, we have telemetry to compare to, so I can go out and push the car, without a passenger and then compare the clients laps to mine, sit down and talk through it ect ect.

I am there to teach you how to get the most out of your self and your own ability; not show you how well I can drive your car on its limit.

Correct me if I am wrong please, but where does it say that I will personally drive your car at 100%?

My main point being is that most people will not take anything in when I am driving very fast either, as they will be hanging on for dear life. In my experience, the slower laps, talking my way round and demonstrating the techniques are far more beneficial then going flat out with the client for 3 laps.

Hope that answers your question? If not, say so.

Ps, maybe I am wrong, but I personally respect other people's property and safety, if someone asks me to really go 100%, then I might consider it once I have all the insurance in place, but no Guarantee’s.

 

[kleonard]

no offence sean .. we all know your a good driver and instructor .... .. but :finger being only in your early 20s i think your being very naive..!!! accidents do happen..!!! i lent my gt2 to someone last year iand ended up in a tree with broken legs.. ..!!! luckily he was covered... otherwise he would have been in deep shit ...... !!! i understand what your saying about driving 85 % ..but u still never know what will happen up the road..!!! people that know the risks of you driving there cars will quickly change there tune if a accident happens...!!! GET IT SORTED BEFORE THE SHIT HITS THE FAN.....!!!

 

[Sean Edwards]

no offence sean .. we all know your a good driver and instructor .... .. but :finger being only in your early 20s i think your being very naive..!!! accidents do happen..!!! i lent my gt2 to someone last year iand ended up in a tree with broken legs.. ..!!! luckily he was covered... otherwise he would have been in deep shit ...... !!! i understand what your saying about driving 85 % ..but u still never know what will happen up the road..!!! people that know the risks of you driving there cars will quickly change there tune if a accident happens...!!! GET IT SORTED BEFORE THE SHIT HITS THE FAN.....!!!

No offence taken

I'm not being naive mate, I totally agree with everything said on here about insurance, which is why I am (and have been trying to sort it out for a while) going to get it!!!!

Talking about 100% and risks, is that you Eoin/Karl FFS http://www.biertijd.com/mediaplayer/?itemid=4849 Crazy fool!!!

 

[AF]

You can ask anything you wish and it's a very good question.

I am not there to rag someone's road car to 100% of its ability. On the limit anything can happen and I am not going to take any risks when I have a passenger on board, with or without insurance, it's just not my style.

When we get to race cars, it's slightly different. As with most track day drivers, many rarely get within 70% of the cars actual capability, as they them selves don't have the experience or ability to go beyond that straight away. With race driver tuition in race cars, we have telemetry to compare to, so I can go out and push the car, without a passenger and then compare the clients laps to mine, sit down and talk through it ect ect.

I am there to teach you how to get the most out of your self and your own ability; not show you how well I can drive your car on its limit.

Correct me if I am wrong please, but where does it say that I will personally drive your car at 100%?

My main point being is that most people will not take anything in when I am driving very fast either, as they will be hanging on for dear life. In my experience, the slower laps, talking my way round and demonstrating the techniques are far more beneficial then going flat out with the client for 3 laps.

Hope that answers your question? If not, say so.

Ps, maybe I am wrong, but I personally respect other people's property and safety, if someone asks me to really go 100%, then I might consider it once I have all the insurance in place, but no Guarantee’s.

Sean, you are back peddling now, we are not talking about "race" cars here, we are talking about "track" days and you teaching people and, your liability if anything goes wrong...

 

[Darragh]

It's the same problem with the hire cars at the ring...........are you insured? are you not? is the car really dead? is it not?


very vague situations and the hire companies can really exploit you, so be careful out there......:finger

 

[Clive]

Even race drivers can crash cars - I've seen it on TV even watching the F1 :finger

It isn't healthy to ever assume that nothing could ever happen to you even on a lowly trackday the unexpected is just one corner away even at 85% shit can happen

If the average trackday driver is so bad as all racers seem to suggest then surely it follows that a trackday is actually more dangerous than a race !

I have let an instructor drive my car in the past but he actually drove it probabaly at a slower pace than myself as the purpose of him driving was to show me the line in a few places where despite explanation I still wasn't getting

 

[kleonard]

Nice people in the pit lane that hand anyone the keys of there car to drive on track can turn in to your worst nightmare if you crash there car... turn in to right *****...:wall ..... Personally i think your mad instructing as its only a matter of time untill some wanker puts his can in the wall with u in it trying to impress u...!!!! remember Mat Griffin...!!!!:finger :finger

 

[Sean Edwards]

Even race drivers can crash cars - I've seen it on TV even watching the F1 :finger

It isn't healthy to ever assume that nothing could ever happen to you even on a lowly trackday the unexpected is just one corner away even at 85% shit can happen

If the average trackday driver is so bad as all racers seem to suggest then surely it follows that a trackday is actually more dangerous than a race !

I have let an instructor drive my car in the past but he actually drove it probabaly at a slower pace than myself as the purpose of him driving was to show me the line in a few places where despite explanation I still wasn't getting

True.

Track days are more dangerous yes.

Trust me, I never drive slower then the customer I am teaching when I do actually push the car a bit after a few slower laps. 85% is probably not the right number, more like upto 95% depending on the client

Nice people in the pit lane that hand anyone the keys of there car to drive on track can turn in to your worst nightmare if you crash there car... turn in to right *****...:wall ..... Personally i think your mad instructing as its only a matter of time untill some wanker puts his can in the wall with u in it trying to impress u...!!!! remember Mat Griffin...!!!!:finger :finger

Yes, poor Matt

 

[AF]

Nice people in the pit lane that hand anyone the keys of there car to drive on track can turn in to your worst nightmare if you crash there car... turn in to right *****...:wall ..... Personally i think your mad instructing as its only a matter of time untill some wanker puts his can in the wall with u in it trying to impress u...!!!! remember Mat Griffin...!!!!:finger :finger

Back in the 80's some idiot trying to impress the girl in the back of the car, lost it at Goodwood on an Audi performance day, the car ended up in a multi roll and she went out the back window and died.

I happened to be at the track for a corporate day the following day, with police still around.... made me think that one.....

A

 

[AF]

True.

Track days are more dangerous yes.

Trust me, I never drive slower then the customer I am teaching when I do actually push the car a bit after a few slower laps. 85% is probably not the right number, more like upto 95% depending on the client

To be honest Sean, there is no real need for you to be in the driving seat, and even if you where, there is also no reason at all to drive the car 75% never mind 95%. I doubt any good instructor could drive a car at 85% and still talk sense to the pupil........

A

 

[Glenn Mc]

In most cases, it’s very beneficial. 90% of people need the visual aspect of someone showing them what needs to be done and what the car could actually do, which gives them more confidence in the car capabilities.

Normally I would do 2-3 slow ish laps and 1-2 faster laps, as most people will not take as much information in at speed, as it becomes like a rollercoaster, especially from the passenger seat.

Thanks for the answer....and i guessed it would be so, just wanted to hear from the horses mouth...

I am quite surprised that you are not covered to drive our cars, as i thought i read that you said that you were 'fully insured' ....obviously cover for different things....

I would certainly expect a good tutor to show me the capabilities of my own car, but certainly won't allow that unless i know they are fully insured, as said, accidents do happen, even if they are not by your own doing......

Please keep us posted

G.

 

[Barry]

To be honest, there is next to nothing to be gained from giving someone pax laps in there own car other than the thrill they may get from it... The tuition should take place from the passenger seat....I just don't see any benefit from it, especially considering the risk factor should anything go wrong...

All this 85 - 95% stuff is rubbish IMO.. 95% is all well and good til a hub nut fails at 100mph+ or someone tags your rear quarter panel on the entry to bridge corner..

I've been lucky enough to been offered drives in plenty of nice cars at track days but I'm always of the opinion that if I bend it I mend it.... Surely this adage applies more so when someone is doing it in a professional capacity...

Go get the insurance Sean, in my opinion its more of a necessity than your race experience!

 

[Russell T]

I have been fortunate to have had instruction from 2 well known international racing drivers, both very different in styles one being just awesome in a 911 but really could only show me what to do rather than verbally teach it, in the end he just told me he couldnt teach me anything & I should go racing. The other a Le Mans & multi touring car champion was an excellent teacher he really showed me the technical side of driving and how less was more, all within a couple of laps watching him drive Donny with one hand on the steering wheel slightly drifting through the corners using just 3rd & 4th it was ultimate car control and it felt so smooth, he said I was OK but had a lot to learn. Just like Football its all about opinions,,,

Sean once you have the insurance sorted let us know I would like to book some time with you on a Paddock Day.

Russell

 

[brady]

To be honest, there is next to nothing to be gained from giving someone pax laps in there own car other than the thrill they may get from it... The tuition should take place from the passenger seat....I just don't see any benefit from it, especially considering the risk factor should anything go wrong...

All this 85 - 95% stuff is rubbish IMO.. 95% is all well and good til a hub nut fails at 100mph+ or someone tags your rear quarter panel on the entry to bridge corner..

I've been lucky enough to been offered drives in plenty of nice cars at track days but I'm always of the opinion that if I bend it I mend it.... Surely this adage applies more so when someone is doing it in a professional capacity...

Go get the insurance Sean, in my opinion its more of a necessity than your race experience!

Yeah get it sorted Sean or get out of the game.

As for passenger laps, I have found them very helpful in the past.