Track Day Insurance/Cover

[Tom]

Hey Woppum, thanks That is true yes, far too many so called instructors out there...

No problem,

1. Bedford is good, Silverstone also. Bedford in 90% of the time Open Pit lane, so no problem there and Silverstone is normally 30 min on and 30 min off. Either will do, pop me an e-mail and I will forward you my spreadsheet so you can have a look at all the available dates.

2. Whatever you want, if you prefer MSV then that's fine, but there are lots of good companies out there!

3. Not at the moment no, I might do next year, but that's only Public Liability Insurance and not cover for the car.

4. Bedford will be best then, as Gold track can be a bit strict on drifting (Angus on Saturday haha!). Alternatively, we can go to an Airfield, there are so many around the UK!

Pop me an e-mail anyway and I will forward you the sheet.

Have I taken this up wrong or are you instructing and driving in you're customers cars with no insurance in place??

Whatever about insurance for the ( 100k in the case of a 997)car being driven, but not even personal injury cover for yourself as a passenger?

It raises a number of fairly serious what if's?

What happens if you crash the car? say someone pulls straight out of the pits into your path?

What happens if the customer crashes the car with you as a passenger and you get hurt (god forbid, I dont want to be wishing ill on anyone or anything) but it is your livelihood?

 

[Clive]

Got to agree that your taking a big chance driving other peoples 100K cars on a race track without insurance !!

You could end up in a big heap of trouble if it went wrong -

 

[Sean Edwards]

Have I taken this up wrong or are you instructing and driving in you're customers cars with no insurance in place??

Whatever about insurance for the ( 100k in the case of a 997)car being driven, but not even personal injury cover for yourself as a passenger?

It raises a number of fairly serious what if's?

What happens if you crash the car? say someone pulls straight out of the pits into your path?

What happens if the customer crashes the car with you as a passenger and you get hurt (god forbid, I dont want to be wishing ill on anyone or anything) but it is your livelihood?

Customers know that it's their risk, if they let me drive their car. Lots insure me as an extra driver. Of course I will only ever go 85% in someone else's car, so their is very minimal risk, apart from a freak accident like a wheel falling off ect...

If I get hurt, I have very big life insurance for racing and track days.

I am looking into PLI for next year, but it's quite complicated.

 

[brady]

Customers know that it's their risk, if they let me drive their car. Lots insure me as an extra driver. Of course I will only ever go 85% in someone else's car, so their is very minimal risk, apart from a freak accident like a wheel falling off ect...

If I get hurt, I have very big life insurance for racing and track days.

I am looking into PLI for next year, but it's quite complicated.

Even if something freak were to happen, I would be of the opinion that if you break it you buy it.

What do other instructors do?

 

[Sean Edwards]

Even if something freak were to happen, I would be of the opinion that if you break it you buy it.

What do other instructors do?

Well, I am there to teach, not drive. Most people want me to show them what the car is capable of and that is there own risk. Again, I only drive if someone asks me to.

Most other instructors don't have any type of insurance for anything. Guy knows all about this, when the so called instructor crashed his car.

At the end of the day, it's your choice as to what you allow the instructor to do.

 

[Tom]

Customers know that it's their risk, if they let me drive their car. Lots insure me as an extra driver. Of course I will only ever go 85% in someone else's car, so their is very minimal risk, apart from a freak accident like a wheel falling off ect...

If I get hurt, I have very big life insurance for racing and track days.

I am looking into PLI for next year, but it's quite complicated.

Its not complicated Sean, you get your broker to evaluate the risks, he quotes you for the relevant policies and charges you a premium.

I also have to drive ( and work on )expensive customers cars and I am insured to drive customers cars for work purposes, for my own social or domestic use, the vehicles are insured on our recovery vehicles, the work carried out on the vehicle is insured and the people working on the vehicle are insured.

Is it cheap? No.

Would we trade without it? No.
Do others in our line of business trade without it? They certainly do.

God forbid, should something terrible happen to a customers car while we have it, be it a VW Polo or a Bentley Continental, all we would have to do is write a cheque and brace ourselves for next years renewal.

I'm not aware of your financial circumstances ( and they are none of my business) but unless you are financially secure enough to be able to write a cheque for a 100k car, or a blank cheque for someones medical bills, then you're playing with fire.....

 

[GB]

I wish I could run my business without PL insurance. It's all well and good saying you only drive the client's car if asked and then only at 85% - the fact remains this situation is a time bomb waiting to explode in your face, even only considering factors out of your control.

Certainly puts a different complexion on the whole track tuition thing for me...............

Others on here may be happy to take the risk, but I'm not unless it's on a 'bend-it-you-buy-it' basis or there is adequate cover in place. I'm not a 'what-if' person either and am not risk averse, but to not have PL insurance seems naive at best and reckless at worst.

 

[Clive]

Damage to a 100k car is one thing but what if someone was killed or injured ?? that really would get expensive ??

No matter how great a driver is it isn't possible to control all the variables

No one ever intends to have an accident

I bet insurance would be expensive but surely it's cheaper than the possible alternative ?

BTW - I thought public liability was a legal requirement of all businesses ???

 

[AF]

Its not complicated Sean, you get your broker to evaluate the risks, he quotes you for the relevant policies and charges you a premium.

I also have to drive ( and work on )expensive customers cars and I am insured to drive customers cars for work purposes, for my own social or domestic use, the vehicles are insured on our recovery vehicles, the work carried out on the vehicle is insured and the people working on the vehicle are insured.

Is it cheap? No.

Would we trade without it? No.
Do others in our line of business trade without it? They certainly do.

God forbid, should something terrible happen to a customers car while we have it, be it a VW Polo or a Bentley Continental, all we would have to do is write a cheque and brace ourselves for next years renewal.

I'm not aware of your financial circumstances ( and they are none of my business) but unless you are financially secure enough to be able to write a cheque for a 100k car, or a blank cheque for someones medical bills, then you're playing with fire.....

You have a very serious point there VST..........

A

 

[Woppum]

Sean, bit of a naughty question on my part. I know for a fact everyone I have approached so far and put this question too has come back to me saying the both do not have public liability or insurance for the customer car. I hadnt spoken to someone as experienced as you so wondered.

I have spent alot of time over the past year or so looking in to insurance, speaking to brokers and trying to get an understand on what will happen when something goes wrong on a track. At the moment it is a grey area, no one has been sued as yet and most people out there are under the impression everyone looks after number 1 and number 1 only on track.

This is however not necessarily the case. If I crashed my car in to another driver on track, killed them - why could the deceased wife of child not sue me? The police also could arrest me foir death by negligence (or something) and it would be up to a court or judge to decide the outcome. These are all risks we have to take on our back alone. Getting insurance to cover everything is impossible. Not one company will touch me. Its scary when you get down to it, however one just has to be careful. End of the day we all love it and are going to do it. Sean sounds like a trustworthy chap, has had loads of happy punters - and at the end of the day its not in his interest to feck up or he could be finished! (well on the instructing side anyway).

Not to be a negative Nelly - just facing facts...

 

[AF]

Well said Woppum

A

 

[Barry]

I have to say I'm amazed by this.... I do a bit of instructing at a race school in Mondello and one thing they do not take any chances on is insurance...In this day and age it has to be water tight.... Strange things happen to people when there is a oppurtunity to make money..

My own brother was giving his best mate a lift home from the night club recently and had a pretty major crash, his so called mate is basically in the process of cleaning him out....and he wasn't seriously injured..

I would think that at a minimum you should have yourself insured as a passenger and NEVER drive a customers car without fully comprehensive cover.

 

[AF]

As Guy will attest, some loud mouth Ring expert took his car on track with no insurance and ended up doing £35,000 worth of damage ..................... EEEKKK

A

 

[Sean Edwards]

Its not complicated Sean, you get your broker to evaluate the risks, he quotes you for the relevant policies and charges you a premium.

I also have to drive ( and work on )expensive customers cars and I am insured to drive customers cars for work purposes, for my own social or domestic use, the vehicles are insured on our recovery vehicles, the work carried out on the vehicle is insured and the people working on the vehicle are insured.

Is it cheap? No.

Would we trade without it? No.
Do others in our line of business trade without it? They certainly do.

God forbid, should something terrible happen to a customers car while we have it, be it a VW Polo or a Bentley Continental, all we would have to do is write a cheque and brace ourselves for next years renewal.

I'm not aware of your financial circumstances ( and they are none of my business) but unless you are financially secure enough to be able to write a cheque for a 100k car, or a blank cheque for someones medical bills, then you're playing with fire.....

Like I said before, I am looking into the different areas of insurance at the moment. I will look into the cost of insuring other people's car when I am driving and my obligations if anything bad happened.

I could pay back a 100k car yes, but need PLI in case of injury, as you can be looking at millions.

I wish I could run my business without PL insurance. It's all well and good saying you only drive the client's car if asked and then only at 85% - the fact remains this situation is a time bomb waiting to explode in your face, even only considering factors out of your control.

Certainly puts a different complexion on the whole track tuition thing for me...............

Others on here may be happy to take the risk, but I'm not unless it's on a 'bend-it-you-buy-it' basis or there is adequate cover in place. I'm not a 'what-if' person either and am not risk averse, but to not have PL insurance seems naive at best and reckless at worst.

That is why I am looking into PLI for next year and when you have tuition, you do not have to let the instructor drive, it's you choice.

Damage to a 100k car is one thing but what if someone was killed or injured ?? that really would get expensive ??

No matter how great a driver is it isn't possible to control all the variables

No one ever intends to have an accident

I bet insurance would be expensive but surely it's cheaper than the possible alternative ?

BTW - I thought public liability was a legal requirement of all businesses ???

Yep, very true. I think PLI is about £4k a year, so not that bad... I have been consulting a laywer for a while now and looking at all the different insurance's I need and thing people need to sign at the begginign of any day.

Sean, bit of a naughty question on my part. I know for a fact everyone I have approached so far and put this question too has come back to me saying the both do not have public liability or insurance for the customer car. I hadnt spoken to someone as experienced as you so wondered.

I have spent alot of time over the past year or so looking in to insurance, speaking to brokers and trying to get an understand on what will happen when something goes wrong on a track. At the moment it is a grey area, no one has been sued as yet and most people out there are under the impression everyone looks after number 1 and number 1 only on track.

This is however not necessarily the case. If I crashed my car in to another driver on track, killed them - why could the deceased wife of child not sue me? The police also could arrest me foir death by negligence (or something) and it would be up to a court or judge to decide the outcome. These are all risks we have to take on our back alone. Getting insurance to cover everything is impossible. Not one company will touch me. Its scary when you get down to it, however one just has to be careful. End of the day we all love it and are going to do it. Sean sounds like a trustworthy chap, has had loads of happy punters - and at the end of the day its not in his interest to feck up or he could be finished! (well on the instructing side anyway).

Not to be a negative Nelly - just facing facts...

Yep, agreed. It's is very time consuming and costly to get it all sorted out, but I am well aware of the risks now, which is why I am sorting it out.

I have to say I'm amazed by this.... I do a bit of instructing at a race school in Mondello and one thing they do not take any chances on is insurance...In this day and age it has to be water tight.... Strange things happen to people when there is a oppurtunity to make money..

My own brother was giving his best mate a lift home from the night club recently and had a pretty major crash, his so called mate is basically in the process of cleaning him out....and he wasn't seriously injured..

I would think that at a minimum you should have yourself insured as a passenger and NEVER drive a customers car without fully comprehensive cover.

Yep, in thisa day and age, you can't count on anyone of anything, which is sad really.

I do have cover for my self in case of injury, like I said previously.

As Guy will attest, some loud mouth Ring expert took his car on track with no insurance and ended up doing £35,000 worth of damage ..................... EEEKKK

A

Yeah, said that above, not good!

 

[Sean Edwards]

Ps, any companies that you already know of that supply all these different types of insurance, please let me know.

 

[GB]

Sean, at £4k that insurance is worth every penny and split over the number of people you teach in a year, it is positively miniscule in the greater scheme of things.

We all hate paying for insurance until such time as we need it.

I am all for businesses like yours being a success as they have a valuable role to play in educating drivers but to be taken seriously as a concern, you have to show due diligence and care for your paying client.

 

[Woppum]

You could try insurance_jon on www.tyresmoke.net
Do a search, send him a PM and say Woppum said it could be worth you speaking to him.

thanks,

Sam

 

[Damon]

Sean try Jez at Pace Ward www.pw-f.co.uk

He does all my commercial insurances

 

[Allan]

+1 for Jez he is at the forefront of providing cover for unusual risks etc


Allan

 

[eoin]

if you have no insurance your at nothing, and saying 85% is bullsh#tyour out in a car and some1 comes out and you decide its dice time your going to show off it's just what any male will do, i make sausages and i'm insured up to the eye's, and you realy don't know how your insured till you have to claim. and claiming that you can pay for 100k cars thats great, what about the follow on of hospital bill's, physio, out of work, so on so on..... most of the guy's you teach will be in very good job's r have a good comfortable lifestyles, god forbid you kill some1 and you have to cover lost earning to their families thats when it gets a bit more than 100k for a bit of metal, millions of £ could be the out come. i don't wish for this to happen to anybody but you never know, any chances i would have had of using you are gone out the window or using anybody else unless i was 100% happy that i and the passenger was fully insured.