Full wrapping worth the risk?

[Guam]

HI Guys there has been an interesting develpoment in the UK lately which is something of a step backwardsI personally believe however I do view this place as very useful bellweather in terms of opinions.

In the early days of Paint protection film before design houses evolved people used to use bulk film and wrap the film around the edges of panels on cars. It was felt this had a number of serious risks so the industry moved to precut patterns to reduce/ eliminate these risks.

Almost any quality operation could do this of course (as we can) however to achieve this in most cars requires removal of panels and things like Headlight arrarrays indicators (where in the wings etc) it also means that where a corner appears you end up with an exposed triangle and a degree of cutting on the paintwork is required.

This logically slows the job down and results often in a higher cost per vehicle and will double the amount of time taken to do the job in essence.

It would also lead to a reduction in warranties often due to the extensive time required to replace components pushing the costs up and making most no failure warranties uneconomical to implement.

The benefits of this are of course there is no edge line as it is tucked under the body panel and further reduces the visibility of the film, this is a very marginal benefit as the effect of full coverage patterns is pretty much the same as a wrap, as you have to nearly feel to find any edge in most places if its a well designed pattern.

The industry evolved on the basis of eliminating this. The risks are pretty obvious, panel damage, and general vehicle damage, possible electrical damage from careless removal and re-assembly, this is usually done by UNCERTIFIED labour in most cases, so the risk of misaligned panel gaps scratches or cuts on paint is VERY real.

All that being said I would like to know what percentage of you would like to go back to doing this and would pay for the privilidge.

Also I tried to post a poll but was timed out while writing the questions getting old I guess

Cheers

Tom

 

[Glenn Mc]

Tom, can't the pre cut shape not be just made in the relavent shapes, but larger, so that they wrap around as required, but do not need to be cut ??

I for one would prefer edgless (sp?) coveradge, as the edges can collect dirt....

or am i missing your point totally...

 

[Butzi]

For me I really wouldn't want any panels to be removed for the process. Lights and anxillaries should be ok as they are not normally that difficult to remove and put back.

One of the reasons why I'd prefer a wrap round edge is that the forward facing edge will in time collect dirt which makes it a bit more obvious, also risking it lifting.

As Glenn has mentioned, wouldn't it be possible to say add another cm to eg the front of the bonett piece to wrap round the front edge, and yet just have the cut out for the rest?

For the side repeater/headlight, I'd much prefer you take the light out to put the film on, then cut the hole to fit the lights back on.

 

[So Poo]

Tom I thought the new films were too thick to do this now?

 

[Butzi]

surely if the film is thicker, you just leave a wider margine to wrap around?

 

[So Poo]

Sorry mick, wasn't explaining myself very well. Was refering to when you are trying to wrap round a curvered edge (like the wheel arch) must be more difficult to stretch a thicker film?

 

[Guam]

Hi guys

Nothing to with thickness I have noted a "competitor" saying something on their website about "other products" being less flexible absolute rubbish, there is pretty much NO film that cannot be wrapped if you know what you are doing.

The problems are in the risks and timescales our software allows us to grow patterns to wrap cars if we want (always has) it comes down to how much wrapping is required and if you dont wrap every panel whats the point.

Let me illustrate

Lets assume for a moment that you want a whole car covered, how much of your car do you want me to take apart? Bumper has to come off to wrap it, bonnet can be done in situ, headlight arrays will have to come out and indicators and seals have to be removed and or wings taken off, so lets multiply that across the whole car it would become prohibitively expensive if you stop and think for a moment. We carry third party liability and product liability insurances (as you would expect) how much more is that premium going tobe? also what is a one man job for 4-6 hours max on a full front turns into a two man job minimum for in excess of a day.

Worse yet because of the cost of replacement under warranties we would have to dump the no failure warranty as replacing a bit of film that might take an hour now would take a good part of the day.

You can see where this is heading after taking the car apart you have electrical problems or a lamp assembly blows when the car is under warranty who is liable?? me the car man or is it tough luck mr car owner?

I suspect most of these doing this have not had correct training in bodyshop or auto mechanics techniques and certifications, to ensure they are fully insured to do this I certainly know of two operators where this is certainly the case.

MY feeling is that if anything the ONLY area this should be attempted is on the bonnet and even then if the bonnet does not have a radius at the front (like porkers) then the knife is going to have to come out in most instances, we have some ideas on this one incidentally.

Following that logic whats the point if any, of doing the bonnet if you dont wrap the wings and bumpers as you will still have lines.

So having spent a small fortune on a high end car would you really let just ANYONE take it apart??

IF you as consumers tell me you want this and will pay to have it done by certified and trained labour who are insured to do the work, I will be prepared to start doing this and start constructing panel rigs for this purpose .

WE know of instances a few years ago where someone doing this dropped a couple of Porsche headlamp arrays, mmm not going to be cheap.

We had cause as a test excercise to have a murcialago indicator array out (dealer owners car) even their mechanics werent fond of the idea and they ARE very SKILLED personel as it is easy to screw up in there. How is a film fitter going to know better than a highly skilled Lambo technician??


These reasons are why the market fled from this idea to a precut pattern because 8-9 years ago this was how it was ALL done!!! Looks like Duran Duran is not the only thing making a comeback.


Back to you guys.

 

[Butzi]

I think I'll have to agree with you there Tom, taking the car apart is certainly a no no. The only time I'd say yes to a wrap round then is when it can be done in situ.

 

[Guam]

Another point that is being discussed with installers on a specialist forunm I am on in the states is what this could do to vehicle warranties, where major dissassembly of the vehicle is concerned. the points being raised include how an installer (and customer) can prove they werent at fault in some way during the dissassembly process.

I know there are a few guys in the trade on here I would value your input, I will take the matter up with Porsche, Aston, Rolls Royce, Ferrari Gb etc for some guidance. Would our fitters need trained or certified by every manufacturer to protect the warranty or is there an accepted industry qualification that would protect a Porsche or Lambo customers warranties?

Certainly in the Film industry a 3M certified installer can not carry out Venture warranty work and vice versa seems a similar situation may apply, otherwise why would there be Porsche approved Bodyshops etc?


Any thoughts?

 

[MariusL]

I wouldn't like anyone to, except trained Porsche mechanics do anything on my car that is so much work on the body. Its so many people that doesnt know what they are doing, so I am trying to avoid not specialists.

 

[Stuart]

I have not had any films on my car, so I do not have firsthand knowledge, but I haeva few comments:

1. Is there any issue at the moment with the leading edges lifting?
My understanding is no.

2. Is there any issue at the moment with the leading edges being particularly visible?
I haven't heard people complaining about it.

So, is there actually a problem here that needs to be solved?

The areas most at risk are the bumper, bonnet and wings.
If you take most cars, then the film could quite easily wrap around the front edge of the bonnet I think. The sides and the rear edge do not matter.
However, does the front edge actually need to have the film go around it? Normally the bonnet is recessed slightly, so the edge is not exposed.

I can't see the very marginal benefits to the wings being worth the effort of trying to remove them.

Given the large increase in time and cost, and the questions about the warranty, then I would say there is no advantage to changing from the current solution.

 

[Guam]

Hi Stuart Yes my instinctive tendency is to agree with you hence the original post, it has however become a "hot topic" of late mainly being pushed by one sector of the market to be fair.

however this is extremely useful in assessing whether the market really needs a seminal shift or not. my feeling is not, but perhaps some feel otherwise

Cheers

Tom

 

[Guam]

Just Checked with a few people in the trade and the consensus on this is that stripping a car down by NON certified personel WILL invalidate warranties waiting for hard statements from the Manufacturers themselves which may take a little while.

I guess if we ARE asked to do this we will have to have a no fault warranty liability disclaimer and the customer will have to assume the risk of invalidating the warranties.

Untill that is clarified we will limit our offering to the option to wrap bonnets where requested as they will be an in situ excercise and wrapping round into a wheel arch where sufficient surface area exists.

We are working on a couple of other possible solutions (as we do) to the wing inner section issues. Will keep you appraised of these as we launch them out.

Our Boxster rear wings for example wrap inside the door as a pre cut pattern so the only edge is towards the rear of the vehicle


Moz give me a call as I have something Very special in mind


Cheers

Tom

 

[Guam]

I know there has been more discussion on this and a couple of competitors have been alleging that my feelings on wrapping are based on an inability to do this.

Here are some pics of work done using OUR patterns and software of a 986 done by a longstanding associate and friend of mine David Dearing of speed film

As you can imagine as we did the patterns for this car we ARE fully capable of doing this when and if required, I still question the advisability of it TBH, but hey here is proof positive that my concerns do NOT spring from an inability to provide the product in this form.

This bonnet has the triangles because David refuses to fit the 60" film from the only supplier available right now and used Avery on this car (54" from them due in a couple of weeks)

Cheers

Tom